Is this Besson a Bass Cornet?

Besson was at that street address from 1858–1934; Fischer was in business starting in 1872. So, all we know from the engraving is that the horn is no older than 1872 and no newer than 1934.

Galpin lists a nearby serial number with an intriguingly similar description to mine:

{55414} F trumpet; short model shaped like cornet, Md Fr., second slide straight out, .45x

and also:

{59382} 5-valve euphonium
Stamped on bell "... MEDALS OF HONOUR" / monogram / "F. BESSON / BREVETE' / 198 EUSTON ROAD / LONDON" / five-pointed star.
No mention in the Besson stock books; the instrument was numbered no later than 31 Mar 1896.
[ 2005 eBay sale ]
The highest-numbered surviving valved instrument stamped on the bell "F. BESSON"

{59451} Cornet
Stamped on bell "Chicago / Bore / 50 MEDALS OF HONOUR" / monogram FB / "BESSON & CO. / ``Prototype'' / 198 EUSTON ROAD / LONDON" / star / "ENGLAND / C. Fischer / 6 4th Av., N.Y. / Sole Agent U. States"; second valve "BESSON & CO."/ star / "BREVETE" / "59451".
According to the firm's archives [Besson stock books], the instrument was numbered no later than 18 Jun 1896.
[ Private collection ]
The lowest-numbered surviving valved instrument stamped on the bell "BESSON & CO."

opening up the possibility of a new 'record'. On the other hand, that list has a lot of 'highest-this' and 'lowest-that' entries, some seem conflicting to me.

This is starting to get interesting. I also read that at the end of the nineteenth century (1894), the Besson factory of London employed 131 workers, producing 100 brass instruments a week.

I bought a $2 blow-mold tool case at a thrift shop, a Kawasaki (watch out, Yamaha!) that once held some kind of cordless tools. I used the heat gun to soften and cut away and fold back its interior partitions enough to make a nest for the horn. While it was still warm I wrapped the horn in a blanket and closed it in the case to force the soft plastic to take a new 'set'. It won't be beautiful, but it should help protect the horn until/unless I find something better. It's got a nice handle and metal buckle latches, at least, and I could always paint it black and line it with some foam and cloth.

A local (and weirdo low brass aficionado) expert opinion, hands-off:

Might be a bass trumpet. I could believe it needs either a European shank Euphonium mouthpiece (like for a Besson) or a Bass Trombone mouthpiece (I have some of those). But even then that leadpipe looks mighty short. I have seen instruments designed to use a leadpipe extension. Maybe it is supposed to have a removable extra piece of pipe that works as a mouthpiece adapter. Bass trumpets are played by both trombone players and trumpet players, with wildly different tastes in mouthpieces. Having an adapter makes sense, as does an extra large leadpipe to handle the adapter.

I measured the mouthpiece receiver more thoroughly, gently probing depth versus diameter with the butt ends of a drill set:

Drill	Dia.	Depth
—	0.490"	0.000"
31/64	0.483"	0.270"
15/32	0.466"	0.700"
29/64	0.450"	1.146"
7/16	0.436"	1.400"	Bottomed out
27/64	0.420"	—	Slips into leadpipe

I then carefully cut a piece of aluminum pop can shim to wrap around the White 28 mouthpiece shank so that it would mate properly into the receiver rather than go in past the taper proper and wedge at the end. A small 'wing' on the shim keeps it from slipping into the horn. Once seated, however, I still found it relatively hard to play. (Hello: trumpet player!) Its shank was the largest/most suitable of the three bass mouthpieces we have, but shank isn't everything. I then measured all three mouthpieces:

Piece	Cup Dia.	O.D.	Shank Min	Shank Max	Shank length	Overall length	Schilke(-ish)
White 28	24.4 mm	38.82 mm	10.75 mm	12.8 mm	37 mm	80 mm	45B
White 20	24.1 mm	37.36 mm	11.00 mm	12.6 mm	31 mm	68.4 mm	44
Holton 37	23.6 mm	36.90 mm	10.1 mm	12.3 mm	35 mm	74 mm	43A

The Holton (trombone) required another layer of pop can shim in order to mate with the receiver, and it was in quite a ways (rim about 2 inches from the bow) making playing awkward, but it was also clear that the playing got easier (for me) as the cup diameter got smaller. I had to pull the tuning slide out considerably with this arrangement, 40 mm of a possible 80 mm (for 80 mm total extension), lending credence to the theory of a missing mouthpiece adapter of some sort. I'm thinking that if a Schilke 40B (22.50 mm) is what trumpet players use doubling on bass, I should perhaps just get one and find some way to make it work. (Unless I can find an even more suitable dedicated bass trumpet mouthpiece.)

More bass trumpet surfage from here:

If you are looking for a piece to show it off in a recital, try the Neruda Trumpet Concerto down an octave. It lies really nicely in the sweet spot of most bass trumpets.

Finally, a story. I do not know for certain if this is true, but it's one of those stories that ought to be true, even if it isn't. Back in the Reiner era [some say Ormandy, not Reiner] Renold Schilke was playing bass trumpet during a rehearsal. Schilke was using a large trumpet mouthpiece which apparently irked the Maestro. Reiner [Ormandy?] had him play a passage, shook his head and explained that to get a proper sound on bass trumpet you needed to use a trombone mouthpiece. He then told Schilke to show up the next day with a trombone mouthpiece.

Schilke went to his shop after rehearsal, took a trombone blank and made a copy of his trumpet mouthpiece inside it. The next day Reiner [Ormandy?] stopped the orchestra after the same passage. He pointed to Schilke and said, "See, now that is the true bass trumpet sound."

I use the same Laskey 42C that I use for alto trombone. The other finalists when I was in the process of searching were a Bach 22C, a Schilke 42B and a Wick 10CS. I feel strongly that a bass trumpet mouthpiece should be considerably shallower than anything you would use on euphonium. Try borrowing an 11C as a good place to start experimenting.

Doug Yeo uses a shallow cup mouthpiece built on the same rim as his bass trombone mouthpiece. I suppose you could call it a Yamaha 62A. A number of other players I know use shallow cups on a 50 or 51 sized rim. For me, the smaller cups work better. Pretty much every bass trumpet I have played has been pretty stuffy below about D in the staff. Larger mouthpieces (in my experience) don't do anything to help this.

Indeed. Or maybe even a Bach 12C trombone mouthpiece

I use an old Holton 47 on mine. Always liked that one. If I'm doing more relaxed stuff (non-orchestral) my Bach 4C suits me fine.

Tried a 22EW Bach once—awesome! The 47 feels a lot like a 12C rim but much sharper. The 22 has a wide cushy rim, but a cup diameter that feels like an alto-horn mouthpiece.

Using manufacturer's specifications:

Wick	10CS	25.0 mm
Bach	11C	24.7 mm
Bach	12C	24.5 mm
Laskey	42C	24.2 mm
Bach	22C	23.9 mm
Schilke	42B	22.9 mm

Just for reference, a Wick 2 alto horn mouthpiece is 19.0 mm. The smallest trombone mouthpiece I know of is the Schilke 40B, which is 22.5 mm. [At 23.9 mm the smallest Bach trombone sizes are 22C and 22D, the Holton 37 is even smaller.]

According to the liner notes on his Orchestral Excerpts CD, Michael Mulcahy (Chicago Symphony) uses a Bach 15C mouthpiece on his Alexander bass trumpet in C.

I queried TPIN, and got this opinion:

I have a Miraphone bass trumpet. It sounds like your shank may be the European shank. You can google more about the exact specs. [I'm not having much luck getting anything like engineering drawings of shanks. Just 'it exists'.]

This adapter helped me: DEG Tenor to European Shank Mouthpiece Adaptor

I recently purchased the Schilke 40B mouthpiece and it works well for me. It fixed most of my really out of tune notes. There is a compromise in the sound quality, but intonation is more important for me at this time. Maybe I'll be able to work up to a bigger mp.

...I haven't seen much regarding specific measurements, just the 3 sizes (small, European/med, large)

My Miraphone uses the European shank. I tried both large and small before figuring out it was medium. The adapter lets me use any small shank trombone/baritone/euph mp.

The Schilke works best for me. I've tried several mp's trying to fix the intonation. I tried the stock Miraphone, a Getzen, 3 different Storks, 2 Kelly's and finally the Schilke. Kelly has their European shank trombone mp's on sale for $13 ea right now.

The Kelly site had a chart of mouthpiece specs, these are the first concrete numbers I have gotten on shank sizes:

Instrument	Inside Dia. of Rcvr.
Small-Shank Trombone / Baritone	.48"
European-Shank Euphonium	.51"
Large-Shank Trombone / Euphonium	.55"

Of everything I've seen so far, the closest thing to this horn's leadpipe configuration is the old Mahillon trumpet shown on http://www.78s2cd.com/PhotoGallery/photo_gallery.html:

• Mahillon B♭ trumpet (early 1900's)
• Mahillon/Hall/Tarr Mouthpiece copy and leadpipe

Note how far the mouthpiece receiver is located 'into' the horn, and how the bow of the bell would poke you in the face if you tried playing without the leadpipe extension. Yeah, that's my situation too.

Random idea: take a tenor trombone leadpipe (does this include the mouthpiece receiver?) and cut it down to fit into this receiver such that the end of the extension leadpipe mated with the beginning of the cornet's. Would really need to check diameters, lengths, etc. Getting a taper on it could be difficult.

More feedback from another bass trumpet aficionado:

Very interesting looking machine. Difficult to add much from photographs. Might possibly be a bass flugelhorn. Similar in many ways to one of mine (apart from rotary valves)

I was not aware of a Besson bass trumpet but then an instrument of that age is entitled to be rare and unknown. The mouthpiece problem does not surprise me. Modern tapers are either too small (medium large bore) or too large (large bore). I solved this on one of my old instruments by using a period mouthpiece which fits quite nicely. You can pick up old trombone/baritone/euphonium mouthpieces quite easily and cheaply on eBay.

Bass flugelhorn? Plausible, but how would one determine this? The one photograph I found of something called a bass flugelhorn was actually a Chinese creation, complete with the usual hyperbole, and had a very fat bell. (Think Benge #5 flugelhorn 'blunderbuss' on steroids.) It looked almost like a wadded-up miniature euphonium, I'm not sure that I'd take it as any kind of reliable definition of species, but if I were to do so then I do not have a bass flugelhorn.

Not a recital, but I did tackle a piece of the recommended Neruda Trumpet Concerto down an octave (the only way it could probably be played on the bass cornet). While I was bludgeoning the life out of the first passage (as opposed to making listenable music out of it) I couldn't help but see why it was suggested as something to try: it does sound kind of nice on this horn. This Besson seems like perhaps it could work out. (I found it much easier to play than the same thing on the Frumpet in E♭, in part because it's in B♭ which my eye/ear is somewhat calibrated to.) The Holton 37 was actually working for me fairly well, I thought. I played some range games, and the horn was as in tune for me as anything, all the way from F♯ at the bottom to the G just over three octaves above. (Ok, it's more than a bit thin-sounding up there, but is more-or-less in tune.)

I bought (on eBay) a Herco Trombone mouthpiece of particularly small diameter. (Herco is a cheap aftermarket name, but this is an unusual piece that might just work well for me.) Supposedly it will just eat a US nickel, (shown with a Bach 12C similarly eating a US quarter) which makes its inner diameter approximately 21.4 mm, the smallest I've yet seen. $45, shipped. We'll see how it does. The eBay text:

OK, I'm going to be offering a selection of mouthpieces from my collection, starting with this Herco, which I haven't quite figured out. It fits a small shank trombone, but the only thing similar I've seen is an Al Cass mouthpiece. The [Bach] 12C shows a quarter fits flush with the rim—to get the same rim/flush setting on the Herco a nickel does the job. The Bach 5 and 12C swallow up the nickel, but obviously the Herco doesn't.

So, all I can figure is the Herco might be useful for trumpet/flugel players who double on 'bone, or else it could be used by 'bone players who want to scream into the high register à la David Steinmeyer. In any event, this isn't a mouthpiece you can walk into a local music store and pick off the shelf. Plating is shiny and like new, no wear on it at all. I'm asking $40 for it, plus $5 shipping. Immediate payment required.

[If there are] no takers this time around, I won't list it again for months, if at all. This is about 1/10th the price of similar Al Cass mouthpieces I've seen, so now's your chance to own a most unique mouthpiece.

$45 is a bit stiff for a gamble, but that seems to be the going rate for the bottom tier of out-of-the-envelope trombone mouthpieces in good condition. (A 40B will probably cost me more than that.) If it's truly bad for me I think it could be flipped later without losing much, if anything. Rumor has it that Herco was:

Made at Miller Automatics, Brooklyn NY. Miller also made the blanks for Rudy Muck, Giardenlli, Parduba, Jettone, Al Cass and others. Herco was Hirshman musical products 49 St NYC. I believe it's now owned by Jim Dunlop the guitar pick maker...

Another bit of information:

The euro adapter extends my mouthpiece approx. 1/2 inch. This might help with the bow against your cheek.

I suppose I need to just break down and order a 40B mouthpiece and Euro adapter. I doubt I'm going to find either of those used any time soon... So I did. $47 from WWBW, along with a Euro adapter and a small-shank extension. About $80 all told. When I got it I found that I had a little trouble playing down to the bottom of the horn's range, the Holton 37 is a little larger which is helpful. (I think I'll try to get another one of these to keep in the horn case as well.) The DEG A05-36E euphonium mouthpiece adapter seems to be all that is truly necessary: with it the 40B reaches almost to the end of the horn's bow, it's very playable with either mouthpiece. (The Holton still wants a bit of shim material to fit well into the adapter, as its taper is slightly different than the current standard small trombone shank.) It will take some time on the horn to determine which of the two mouthpieces is superior for me.

The Herco came and looks good. Chrome-plated, not silver. It measures approximately 20.5 mm in the cup, the smallest yet. The cup's approximately 14 mm deep, overall diameter is 34 mm. The shank diameter (small end) is 11.3 mm, or 0.450", and fits perfectly into the adapter. Overall length is the usual 3" or so. In appearance it looks a lot like an old Jet-Tone, and I think its svelteness, like the Holton's, matches the horn's style better than the bulk of the 40B does. It plays a lot like the 40B, it also won't go low very easily. The timbre of each of the three mouthpieces is a bit different, more time will be required in order to choose among them. I think the Holton's a bit harder for me to play, but that's just because it's the least trumpet-like. Certainly the Holton is the most versatile, as it'll go lower.

It was suggested that I check out Oberloh Woodwind and Brass Works (of Seattle) for any work or parts I might need. Looks like they'd be well-qualified to do whatever was necessary!

The $10 Bach 381 trombone (small-shank) mouthpiece extender came, and it brings the mouthpieces out nicely. No more interference between the bow and your face, and the tuning slide is at a more reasonable extension. Seems to play the same, so that's good. I don't believe any further seeking need be done, it's time to just sit down and play the thing! (I have been: the Neruda. I suck.)

Images:

Mouthpieces, etc.

Mouthpiece extended

...The more I play this thing the more I think it sounds like I think a peashooter valve trombone would sound. I A-B'd it against the Euphonium, and it's not one of those. (It shouldn't be.) But it's not necessarily a 'typical' bass trumpet either. Close as I'm ever likely to have, however.

...I bid on (and won) a Holton 35 trombone mouthpiece. $18, eBay. Looks like the 37, but smaller, and/or with a flatter rim. (It's official, I've now spent more on the mouthpiece end of things than I did on the horn. Ironic!) When it came it looked pretty good, very much like the 37 but with a slightly smaller cup. The end was dinged, but a little reaming with the tapered nose of needlenose pliers put that back. It looks like it had been buffed and replated at some time, the "Frank Holton" part of the stamp is largely worn away, yet the silver plating is intact. No matter. Fit-wise it definitely needs two pop-can shims because of the slightly smaller shank dimensions than the 37, which required one shim. The rim is a little more rounded than the 37's, not flatter, and the transition into the throat is gentler. The cup is slightly smaller in diameter. I then measured all five mouthpieces I've associated with this horn, all dimensions in millimeters:

Piece	Cup, Rim	Cup, @ 12 mm	Cup Depth	Rim	Bore	O.D.	Shank Min	Shank Max	Shank length	Overall length	Schilke(-ish) equiv.
Herco	20.9	13.2	15.7	6.6	6.0	34.0	11.3	13.0	42.3	77.8	?
Schilke 40B	23.4	16.0	20.2	6.8	5.95	39.6	10.1	12.2	32.7	71.9	40B
Holton 35	23.4	15.0	19.7	6.8	6.5	36.9	10.1	12.2	32.7	71.9	43A
Holton 37	23.6	16.6	19.2	6.7	6.25	36.9	10.1	12.3	35.0	74.0	43A
Schilke 42B	24.0	14.4	18.0	6.6	5.95	36.4	11.0	12.8	35.7	83.4	42B
*King 12C	23.7	16	17.4	7	5.8	38.3	10.7	12.5	35	79.8	?
*Conn 22  (Gold Tone)	24.3	18	18	7	6.6	43.5	11.0	12.2	27	78.2	?
*13 CL	25.2	15.2	18	5.8	5.8	38.1	10.7	12.4	36	78.1	?

(* To this table I've added the three mouthpieces that came with the Getzen bass trumpet.)

The cup diameter was measured fractionally in from the rim, it's kind of a judgement call as to the exact location as things are quite tapered there. The next cup diameter was measured as far in (12 mm) as the calipers could reach. The cup depth was measured by dropping an oval-headed screw into the throat and measuring from its head to the rim. Bore was measured by slipping letter-series drills in, butt-end first, until one was found that would go all the way through, then measuring it. (The 40B apparently had a 6.0 mm bore, except that it tapers down slightly into a venturi further in.)

When I got a chance I played the 35, and it seems similar enough to the 37 that I've got no worries that I'm 'missing something' by putting the 37 aside. (The Holton 37 is going back into the trombone case, the 35 will work well enough in its place here. Just what I'd intended.) The 35 plays low much easier than the other two, but is more difficult up high. Is there something suitable in the middle, perhaps? Yes, of course there is. I surfed for and found a 42B for sale for $20 on OTJ, that would complete the lineup. As 'show and tell' is also coming up I drilled three holes for mouthpieces in a suitable part of the Kawasaki case. (All that could fit in that spot.) That'll keep them from rattling around loose, anyway. When the 42B came it looked very good, in a Schilke box and everything. It, however, bears no resemblance to the 40B, either in appearance or in feel on the face! It's a very different mouthpiece, supposedly derived from one of Tommy Dorsey's favorites, and it feels a lot larger than the 40B, more like the Holton 37. I definitely now have enough range of mouthpieces, especially for my needs, and I just need to get some time on them to decide what I like best. Of note is that I measure the 42B's cup diameter as larger than Schilke does, but no doubt we use different reference points. (Officially it's 22.9 mm, whereas I get 24.0 mm.) I left my number in the above chart for comparison purposes, since I measured them all about the same way.

The presence in the case of three mouthpieces that fit the adapter series well, and one that does not, spurred me to do something better than pop-can shims for the odd man out. I poked around and determined that .410 shotgun brass was actually a fair fit into the shank extender. I clamped it into a split hole in a piece of wood and drilled out the center with successively larger drill bits until the mouthpiece would go in far enough. That still left some plastic on the inside, which helps make up for the fact that it isn't tapered. But the heavier brass doesn't get as wedged into the adapter as the aluminum shims did, and the rim on the brass makes it much easier to pick out. Looks a lot better, too. Given that I probably will not end up playing that mouthpiece much it should be good enough. Besides, I like making things out of shell casings!

More horn taxonomy: The horn looks a lot like the Olds or King 1130 flugabone, or like the later-designed (also by Zig Kanstul) Kanstul 955 Flugelbone, though these have larger bores and bells, and are a lot heavier. The more things change, the more they stay the same, eh?

I checked with Horn-U-Copia, "An Internet Forum dedicated to Obscure Antique and Out-of-Production Brass Instruments", and so far nobody has responded with further information about the horn. (Or, in fact, at all. Similar attempts to contact The Galpin Society also met with thundering silence.) Other information found there (on horn taxonomy) implies that there was such a thing as a bass cornet back in those days, but they were not common at all.

Bass Trumpet (what I'd been calling it up 'til now) or Bass Cornet, still not settled, though I am leaning towards cornet based on the way it play-tests against the later-acquired Getzen bass trumpet, and the wrap. (Three 180° turns in the leadpipe, the first turn tapered the full distance and with the tuning slide in the second turn facing the player? Three 180° turns in the bell branch, plus a little jog coming out of the valve body? That's a [cornet] wrap!) I should take some detailed measurements and then compare them with the pattern of diameters on regular (older) trumpets and cornets. That'll take some doing.

In early 2011 I got a chance to take the horn to EWU's trumpet class, Andy Plamondon presiding, for another show and tell. I talked about finding the horn and the search for information on it, I played a bit of the Neruda on it and on the Getzen, and opened up the class to questions. A euphonium player was also invited and he took a run at the horn, and thought that it played more 'open' than the bass trumpets he'd had experience with, and was closer to 'euphonium' than 'baritone'—he was in accordance with calling it a bass cornet rather than a bass trumpet. Andy had less experience with bass trumpets, though he also has a Getzen that he rarely plays, but was also taken with the horn's playability. A couple of the class students also tried it. I had fun, and opinion tended to support the thought that this was a cornet and not a trumpet, so I officially renamed it so at that point. Still could use some metrics, and I wouldn't mind giving an experienced bass trumpeter (and/or Flugabonist) a shot at it to see what they thought.

So far pretty much everybody I've shown it to that can actually play it has asked me if it's for sale. Sorry, can't help you there!

Sunday, July 28, 2013 my knowledgable friend loaned me his copy of the Historic Brass Society Journal, Volume 24 (2012), pp. 113 of which begins an article by Arnold Myers: How Different are Cornets and Trumpets? This is very interesting stuff, the main thrust is that there's a numerical method by which one can place an instrument on a cornet–trumpet continuum by way of the character and amount of its bore taper. This method (obviously a mathematical integral disguised as a piecewise approximation) yields a dimensionless number B in the 0–1 range representing the 'brassiness' of an instrument. Flugelhorns are at about 0.50, cornets (and modern trumpets) at about 0.60, and the earliest valve trumpets are on the brassy side, at around 0.75 in value. I was disappointed in a couple of things: one, that the article did not give a detailed example calculation, preferably of something modern, that could be reproduced by the reader to ensure that the method was being executed correctly when attempting to classify his own instruments; and two, that natural trumpets themselves were not represented in the article. It would have been interesting to find out where they lay on the scale.

I can say without a doubt that my early F trumpet is on the brassy side, which aligns well with the similar instruments described in the article. I can also say that, even without calculating its brassiness index and just by sound, this Besson is not brassy like that, but rather is like a cornet or modern trumpet. The trouble, of course, is that trumpets these days are little different from cornets, in sound and in B. So, this article, while highly interesting, is not actually likely to be of much help in classifying this Besson. On the other hand, given the age of the instrument and what was being made at that time in the trumpet world (instruments like my F trumpet), continuing to classify this Besson as a cornet is not unjustifiable.

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